Honesdale Community Weighs in on SDACT Campaign
Wayne County has a single elementary school that is part of the Holy Cross System of Schools - St. Vincent's in Honesdale. Teachers at St. Vincent's have been represented by the SDACT since 1984. Until last week, we had not heard much from this little corner of the Diocese. As you can see, that no longer is the case. Sentiment there is just about the same as you'll find anywhere in the Diocese regarding SDACT campaign for dignity and justice - overwhelmingly in our camp.
The story and comments below are taken from the Wayne Independent's online report of March 20, 2008.
Honesdale, Pa.
St. Vincent’s School, part of the Diocese of Scranton, has been caught up in the controversy surrounding Bishop Martino’s exhortation that he would not recognize a teacher’s union. In a closed meeting on Tuesday evening, parents at the school met at the Wayne County Public Library, Honesdale, to discuss their options. Organizers of the meeting made portions of the talk, which focused primarily on precedent in Catholic dogma for labor organization, available to the press. These snippets of encyclicals and publications going back a century shed light on both the history of the Catholic Church, and how that tangled history informs policy decisions for many area parents today.
Mike Milz, President of the Scranton Diocese Association of Catholic Teachers (SDACT), presented the lecture. The history of the church’s stated position on worker’s rights, he demonstrated, went back over a century.
From the 1891 Rerum Novarum, ‘On the Condition of Workers:’ “The most important (unions) of all are workingmen’s unions. Such unions should be suited to the requirements of this our age - an age of wider education, of different habits and of far more numerous requirements of daily life.” Pope John Paul revisited these prescient themes on the 100th anniversary of the Novarum in 1991, saying “Here we find the Church’s defense...of trade unions: certainly not because of ideological prejudices....but because the right of association is a natural right of the human being.”
This right, however, has been disputed by Bishop Martino of the Scranton Diocese, who states that the tactics of the SDACT harm students in Catholic schools and keep the labor relations policies already in place from functioning. A meeting of the Diocese’s Employee Relations Program, which the SDACT urged its members to boycott, was the final straw.
“[The SDACT] would deny fellow teachers, and all school employees, from taking an opportunity to have a voice in discussions about wages, benefits, working conditions, and grievances...SDACT will not be recognized, and this decision is final.”
In the organization’s blog, President Milz encouraged interested parents and other readers to write letters to the editor of their local papers, as well as letters to Bishop Martino or US Archbishop Pietro Sambi.
One such letter to the Bishop was quoted in the evening’s presentation was from Father Patrick Sullivan, C.S.C., PhD. He said, “In your Employee Relations Program...the moral right of workers to form their own unions is taken away...such company unions are referred to as modern day feudalism or worse.”
Other suggestions made to parents at the Tuesday evening meeting included holding parish donations in escrow, and joining prayer vigils, rallies, and picketing events. One such public demonstration was recently held at Scranton’s St. Patrick’s Day parade, with members of the SDACT and supporting parents marching and holding signs.
As the purpose of the Tuesday evening meeting was to facilitate discussion among parents, the press was asked not to attend. Organizers hoped the free and informal atmosphere would allow for more communication on this issue, which will surely continue to preoccupy parents of local Catholic schoolchildren in the coming weeks and months.
Comments (17)
frank furter
no wonder why so many people are leaving the chatholic church
Catholic Leadership?
2008-03-21T07:57:06
I think withholding donations to the church is a great idea. They used past donations to harbor pedophiles. They facilitated the invasion of Iraq. I don't trust them to do God's will with my donation. Part of my Lenten tithe went to the Navy and Marine Corps Relief Society. There are plenty of better institutions that emulate the works of christ.
ugh
i don't attend church anymore and don't hold your breath while having a " name=comment_text prayer vigil? people....This is just disgusting and that Bishop should be nice and toasty for a long, long time...." i can't believe this is happening...the kids got a letter sent home saying that the teachers get paid to much!!!! i know a woman who has three jobs because of her low wages at the school. think about what a teacher a the middle school in honesdale would make and then cut that in half or thirds. i don't attend church anymore and don't hold your breath while having a "prayer vigil" people....This is just disgusting and that Bishop should be nice and toasty for a long, long time....
2008-03-21T12:10:25
I DENOUNCE MY CATHOLIC FAITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2008-03-21T13:27:16
Leave all attacks at the door. Any more disrespect increases any chance of the Union's reinstatement by nil. The Bishop should be respected, not vilified, especially by Catholics. What a sad spectacle to occur during Lent. I hope and pray that a peaceful resolution comes about. The employee councils should be utilized - not boycotted.
a parent
2008-03-21T14:00:11
Denounce you Catholic faith over this ?? Leaving the church over this?? Please take a step back and think about that. Even the teachers embroiled in this would not want that to happen. I do not go to church to worship the bishop, or the priests or the pope for that matter. I go to church to worship God; to grow closer to Him. Hold on to your faith. I am praying, also, for a peaceful resolution for all those concerned.
THEY HAVE YOU FOOLED
2008-03-21T14:39:26
I am born and raised catholic . I worship and believe in god and do good for my fellow man and community. The catholic church is nothing more that a gigantic corporation. The bishop only got his position because he is makes cuts and balances the budget. I find it sad what religion has became.
Support union!!!
2008-03-21T14:58:32
What happened to the true meaning of religion? For example people like Mother Teresa. For years the wooI has been pulled over all of our eyes. It is amazing how time passes, more and more of the true catholic idiology is revealed. People like Mother Teresa have been replaced by ruthless buisness men.
2008-03-21T16:10:17
if you do the history you will find that the catholic church real is a pagan church and truely does not follow the bible
Wages of Sin?
2008-03-21T17:37:08
It was the "church adminstrators" (temple masters) who put Christ to death........and they were the only ones whom He condemned. That is in every Bible - read it! When He cleansed the temple in Jerusalem - driving out the money changers (who were making $$ for the temple masters) He said: "My house is a house of prayer; but you have made it a den of theives!". That was spoken to them of that day - and to the "bishops" and clerics of this day as well. They cannot & will not escape His judgment. Ask: "where has ALL the money gone"? The bequests, endowment funds, gifts of land, bank accounts? Where? Has it gone to feed & clothe the poor - in whom Christ is present? NO!!! You have and continue to be swindled by these wolves in shepherds cloaks. They do not care about you, your children, your souls, your rights - they simply wish to use you, and your $$$. They are the lords; you are the serfs. If someone could definitively PROVE that the Diocese of Scranton and its member parishes had virtually bankrupted themselves because they literally gave away ALL of the millions upon millions of dollars given by good people over the years to the poor......literally empied thei pockets into the hands of those who needed it, no questions asked..............then they and this "bishop" would be following what Christ ordered His disciples to do (in Scripture). Now, before some well meaning fool rushes to the support of the "bishop" or the pastors, claiming they need the salaries & perks..........that is false. If you have free lodging, food, laundry, office, medical care, etc.........you simply do not need a salary in addition to all of that. Christ had nothing, except the clothes on His back & sandals on His feet - and He commanded His Apostles & Disciples to carry nothing with them, own nothing, and keep nothing for themselves - giving ALL which was given to them to the poor. Look it up in the Bible! For those who cannot comprehend this, a view of the movie "The Shoes of the Fisherman" would be quite educational. " />
The "bishop" thinks the teachers get paid too much? Well, perhaps he and his flunkies (the pastors)should give up THEIR salaries, perks, luxury accomadations, pricy autos, luxury vacation condos (yes - they DO have those!), housekeepers, etc., and live like Christ did..........in whose Name they dare to claim authority over people. And whose Name they use as a cash cow corporate logo (like Col. Sanders on KFC) for vast personal & corporate gain - for centuries It was the "church adminstrators" (temple masters) who put Christ to death........and they were the only ones whom He condemned. That is in every Bible - read it! When He cleansed the temple in Jerusalem - driving out the money changers (who were making $$ for the temple masters) He said: "My house is a house of prayer; but you have made it a den of theives!". That was spoken to them of that day - and to the "bishops" and clerics of this day as well. They cannot & will not escape His judgment. Ask: "where has ALL the money gone"? The bequests, endowment funds, gifts of land, bank accounts? Where? Has it gone to feed & clothe the poor - in whom Christ is present? NO!!! You have and continue to be swindled by these wolves in shepherds cloaks. They do not care about you, your children, your souls, your rights - they simply wish to use you, and your $$$. They are the lords; you are the serfs. If someone could definitively PROVE that the Diocese of Scranton and its member parishes had virtually bankrupted themselves because they literally gave away ALL of the millions upon millions of dollars given by good people over the years to the poor......literally empied thei pockets into the hands of those who needed it, no questions asked..............then they and this "bishop" would be following what Christ ordered His disciples to do (in Scripture). Now, before some well meaning fool rushes to the support of the "bishop" or the pastors, claiming they need the salaries & perks..........that is false. If you have free lodging, food, laundry, office, medical care, etc.........you simply do not need a salary in addition to all of that. Christ had nothing, except the clothes on His back & sandals on His feet - and He commanded His Apostles & Disciples to carry nothing with them, own nothing, and keep nothing for themselves - giving ALL which was given to them to the poor. Look it up in the Bible! For those who cannot comprehend this, a view of the movie "The Shoes of the Fisherman" would be quite educational.
No more $$$$
2008-03-21T23:25:43
The only one who will see what you have done.......is God......!!! He will see and reward your sincerity. FYI - if you give to " name=comment_text get and to as on - But do this......$$$ anonymously in an envelope for your poor neighbor. Trust me - you will feel as if you gave $10K.......even if you only give $20, because you did something sincere without thought of reward or thanks. "
Witholding donations is a great idea - since all that clergy like Martino or Boylan understand is $$$$$. Give it to the poor. Here is a great idea: take that money which you would normally give to the church, and put it in a plain, unmarked white envelope. Now go and slide it under the door of someone whom you know is poor. JUST DO IT!!! You are not asking for thanks, repayment, interest, a tax write-off, a photo-op........you are doing what Christ commanded.......CHARITY!!!! The only one who will see what you have done.......is God......!!! He will see and reward your sincerity. FYI - if you give to "charity" and then write it off on your taxes.........you are cheating; because you are trying to get a "reward" from your "charity".........and that is NOT charity! There is no such thing as "giving to God", because God neither wants nor needs your money. He commanded us to help our neighbor - any neighbor! But do this......$$$ anonymously in an envelope for your poor neighbor. Trust me - you will feel as if you gave $10K.......even if you only give $20, because you did something sincere without thought of reward or thanks.
sad
2008-03-22T12:48:40
As an alumnus of St. Vincent's, this entire situation makes me sad, although I'm not silly enough to misunderstand what is going on in the Church. Sadly, my feeling is that it is changing because of declining enrollment in the Church and in the schools. Yes, it is all a "business"...I think it's hard for some of us to see it that way, but it is true. My wish in recent weeks has been that Bishop Martino and other leaders would actually give up the "I'm right, you're wrong; I'm the boss, you're not" mentality for 10 minutes and have a civilized meeting with the teachers. Communication! I mean no disrespect. I just feel the powers that be have made this situation much worse in the way this has been handled. Now, there are so many angry and fed-up people, and it would seem that the time of reasoning has passed.
2008-03-22T15:36:42
to wages of sin, you hit that nail right on the head and drove it home
parent of a student
2008-03-24T04:43:08
They really want to close the school and do not want any contracts. The amount of children in some grades are so small that there is no other choice. They have been forced out by the cost. Honesty plays no role just the constant drumbeat of more money. They should just reveal their motives.
Support union too and I care about St. Vincents School
2008-03-24T15:26:05
They always had a union and I am from the old school, if you started out with a union, then you have legal right to keep that union. This is very sad, because they have great teachers in St. Vincent’s and they were only interested giving students a good education. If they had hired new teachers and they want to go with the Diocese of Scranton that would be their lose. Bishop Martino is trying to control this whole thing and he does not have the right to do that. I believe that this is Bishop Martino’s way of closing the Catholic schools and when he does that, he will lose a lot of catholic’s. I went to a catholic school over fifty five years ago and it was in the city, and my school and church are still standing, it has not been closed like the churchs and schools in PA. I do believe in God and I do carry him in my heart! Before Bishop Martino took over, St. Vincent's School had lots of students and a great principal, now that Bishop Martino is running the show and changing everything, the school has lost students and good people that also worked there, because they all cared about the children. " name=comment_text>
I am a catholic and I do support unions for the teachers of St. Vincent’s School. They always had a union and I am from the old school, if you started out with a union, then you have legal right to keep that union. This is very sad, because they have great teachers in St. Vincent’s and they were only interested giving students a good education. If they had hired new teachers and they want to go with the Diocese of Scranton that would be their lose. Bishop Martino is trying to control this whole thing and he does not have the right to do that. I believe that this is Bishop Martino’s way of closing the Catholic schools and when he does that, he will lose a lot of catholic’s. I went to a catholic school over fifty five years ago and it was in the city, and my school and church are still standing, it has not been closed like the churchs and schools in PA. I do believe in God and I do carry him in my heart! Before Bishop Martino took over, St. Vincent's School had lots of students and a great principal, now that Bishop Martino is running the show and changing everything, the school has lost students and good people that also worked there, because they all cared about the children.
Questionable motives?
2008-03-25T03:35:23
Now there was NOT a drastic decline in parish membership or attendance PRIOR to this time period. Think about that for a moment. Yet, since Martino & Boylan arrived, the number of masses has been slashed - which obviously CAUSES a drop in attendance. Look at it another way - if you have a movie theater, and you reduce the number of showings of a movie - you will naturally tend to reduce the overall attendance figures. The more you reduce the number of potential "seatings", the smaller your attendance will be. That is without even taking into consideration the very important emotional factor of parishioners who feel offended by such "service cuts"........and simply walk away angry. The clergy know this, and are using it..........! This is a sort of ecclesiastical downsizing. It is done on purpose - dont let anybody tell you to the contrary! And what makes any supportive argument in favor of it (i.e. lack of priests) becomes laughable, in light of the fact that the number of clergy working in the parish has been essentially constant over the years. Simply stated: they are doing this on purpose. Laziness is a factor - but a secondary one. Let he/she who has brains & eyes to see.........use them......and comprehend what it going on here! St. Vincent's sits on some 50 acres of very valuable real estate. Let that sink in!!!!!!! Think well on that, and come to the (painfully obvious) correct conclusion. No matter what some diocesan spin doctor says, they want this school closed. Open your eyes and read what has and is happening across the US in other dioceses. The Catholic schools are being liquidated - slowly and intentionally. While they remain open, they serve to drain money. Yes, there should be a teachers union - and they have the right to organize, and should be supported by the parents of the students. But the motivation & honesty of the Diocese should be questioned. After all, these are the good folks who brought you the Society of St. Johhn in Shahola - which was approved of, funded by, and vigorously defended by .........the Diocese & its leadership. Your money went to underwrite them. And to defend the Diocese against those victims who dared (GASP!!!) to complain of and persue criminal & civil action." />
One should realize that both Bishop Martino & the local pastor came to power at about the same time............which seems to coincide with the "decline" in St. Vincent's mentioned by other posters. Very interesting..................one should also note well that the number of Sunday masses has been drasticaly slashed here in these last 4-5 years. Now there was NOT a drastic decline in parish membership or attendance PRIOR to this time period. Think about that for a moment. Yet, since Martino & Boylan arrived, the number of masses has been slashed - which obviously CAUSES a drop in attendance. Look at it another way - if you have a movie theater, and you reduce the number of showings of a movie - you will naturally tend to reduce the overall attendance figures. The more you reduce the number of potential "seatings", the smaller your attendance will be. That is without even taking into consideration the very important emotional factor of parishioners who feel offended by such "service cuts"........and simply walk away angry. The clergy know this, and are using it..........! This is a sort of ecclesiastical downsizing. It is done on purpose - dont let anybody tell you to the contrary! And what makes any supportive argument in favor of it (i.e. lack of priests) becomes laughable, in light of the fact that the number of clergy working in the parish has been essentially constant over the years. Simply stated: they are doing this on purpose. Laziness is a factor - but a secondary one. Let he/she who has brains & eyes to see.........use them......and comprehend what it going on here! St. Vincent's sits on some 50 acres of very valuable real estate. Let that sink in!!!!!!! Think well on that, and come to the (painfully obvious) correct conclusion. No matter what some diocesan spin doctor says, they want this school closed. Open your eyes and read what has and is happening across the US in other dioceses. The Catholic schools are being liquidated - slowly and intentionally. While they remain open, they serve to drain money. Yes, there should be a teachers union - and they have the right to organize, and should be supported by the parents of the students. But the motivation & honesty of the Diocese should be questioned. After all, these are the good folks who brought you the Society of St. Johhn in Shahola - which was approved of, funded by, and vigorously defended by .........the Diocese & its leadership. Your money went to underwrite them. And to defend the Diocese against those victims who dared (GASP!!!) to complain of and persue criminal & civil action.
The story and comments below are taken from the Wayne Independent's online report of March 20, 2008.
Honesdale, Pa.
St. Vincent’s School, part of the Diocese of Scranton, has been caught up in the controversy surrounding Bishop Martino’s exhortation that he would not recognize a teacher’s union. In a closed meeting on Tuesday evening, parents at the school met at the Wayne County Public Library, Honesdale, to discuss their options. Organizers of the meeting made portions of the talk, which focused primarily on precedent in Catholic dogma for labor organization, available to the press. These snippets of encyclicals and publications going back a century shed light on both the history of the Catholic Church, and how that tangled history informs policy decisions for many area parents today.
Mike Milz, President of the Scranton Diocese Association of Catholic Teachers (SDACT), presented the lecture. The history of the church’s stated position on worker’s rights, he demonstrated, went back over a century.
From the 1891 Rerum Novarum, ‘On the Condition of Workers:’ “The most important (unions) of all are workingmen’s unions. Such unions should be suited to the requirements of this our age - an age of wider education, of different habits and of far more numerous requirements of daily life.” Pope John Paul revisited these prescient themes on the 100th anniversary of the Novarum in 1991, saying “Here we find the Church’s defense...of trade unions: certainly not because of ideological prejudices....but because the right of association is a natural right of the human being.”
This right, however, has been disputed by Bishop Martino of the Scranton Diocese, who states that the tactics of the SDACT harm students in Catholic schools and keep the labor relations policies already in place from functioning. A meeting of the Diocese’s Employee Relations Program, which the SDACT urged its members to boycott, was the final straw.
“[The SDACT] would deny fellow teachers, and all school employees, from taking an opportunity to have a voice in discussions about wages, benefits, working conditions, and grievances...SDACT will not be recognized, and this decision is final.”
In the organization’s blog, President Milz encouraged interested parents and other readers to write letters to the editor of their local papers, as well as letters to Bishop Martino or US Archbishop Pietro Sambi.
One such letter to the Bishop was quoted in the evening’s presentation was from Father Patrick Sullivan, C.S.C., PhD. He said, “In your Employee Relations Program...the moral right of workers to form their own unions is taken away...such company unions are referred to as modern day feudalism or worse.”
Other suggestions made to parents at the Tuesday evening meeting included holding parish donations in escrow, and joining prayer vigils, rallies, and picketing events. One such public demonstration was recently held at Scranton’s St. Patrick’s Day parade, with members of the SDACT and supporting parents marching and holding signs.
As the purpose of the Tuesday evening meeting was to facilitate discussion among parents, the press was asked not to attend. Organizers hoped the free and informal atmosphere would allow for more communication on this issue, which will surely continue to preoccupy parents of local Catholic schoolchildren in the coming weeks and months.
Comments (17)
frank furter
no wonder why so many people are leaving the chatholic church
Catholic Leadership?
2008-03-21T07:57:06
I think withholding donations to the church is a great idea. They used past donations to harbor pedophiles. They facilitated the invasion of Iraq. I don't trust them to do God's will with my donation. Part of my Lenten tithe went to the Navy and Marine Corps Relief Society. There are plenty of better institutions that emulate the works of christ.
ugh
i don't attend church anymore and don't hold your breath while having a " name=comment_text prayer vigil? people....This is just disgusting and that Bishop should be nice and toasty for a long, long time...." i can't believe this is happening...the kids got a letter sent home saying that the teachers get paid to much!!!! i know a woman who has three jobs because of her low wages at the school. think about what a teacher a the middle school in honesdale would make and then cut that in half or thirds. i don't attend church anymore and don't hold your breath while having a "prayer vigil" people....This is just disgusting and that Bishop should be nice and toasty for a long, long time....
2008-03-21T12:10:25
I DENOUNCE MY CATHOLIC FAITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2008-03-21T13:27:16
Leave all attacks at the door. Any more disrespect increases any chance of the Union's reinstatement by nil. The Bishop should be respected, not vilified, especially by Catholics. What a sad spectacle to occur during Lent. I hope and pray that a peaceful resolution comes about. The employee councils should be utilized - not boycotted.
a parent
2008-03-21T14:00:11
Denounce you Catholic faith over this ?? Leaving the church over this?? Please take a step back and think about that. Even the teachers embroiled in this would not want that to happen. I do not go to church to worship the bishop, or the priests or the pope for that matter. I go to church to worship God; to grow closer to Him. Hold on to your faith. I am praying, also, for a peaceful resolution for all those concerned.
THEY HAVE YOU FOOLED
2008-03-21T14:39:26
I am born and raised catholic . I worship and believe in god and do good for my fellow man and community. The catholic church is nothing more that a gigantic corporation. The bishop only got his position because he is makes cuts and balances the budget. I find it sad what religion has became.
Support union!!!
2008-03-21T14:58:32
What happened to the true meaning of religion? For example people like Mother Teresa. For years the wooI has been pulled over all of our eyes. It is amazing how time passes, more and more of the true catholic idiology is revealed. People like Mother Teresa have been replaced by ruthless buisness men.
2008-03-21T16:10:17
if you do the history you will find that the catholic church real is a pagan church and truely does not follow the bible
Wages of Sin?
2008-03-21T17:37:08
It was the "church adminstrators" (temple masters) who put Christ to death........and they were the only ones whom He condemned. That is in every Bible - read it! When He cleansed the temple in Jerusalem - driving out the money changers (who were making $$ for the temple masters) He said: "My house is a house of prayer; but you have made it a den of theives!". That was spoken to them of that day - and to the "bishops" and clerics of this day as well. They cannot & will not escape His judgment. Ask: "where has ALL the money gone"? The bequests, endowment funds, gifts of land, bank accounts? Where? Has it gone to feed & clothe the poor - in whom Christ is present? NO!!! You have and continue to be swindled by these wolves in shepherds cloaks. They do not care about you, your children, your souls, your rights - they simply wish to use you, and your $$$. They are the lords; you are the serfs. If someone could definitively PROVE that the Diocese of Scranton and its member parishes had virtually bankrupted themselves because they literally gave away ALL of the millions upon millions of dollars given by good people over the years to the poor......literally empied thei pockets into the hands of those who needed it, no questions asked..............then they and this "bishop" would be following what Christ ordered His disciples to do (in Scripture). Now, before some well meaning fool rushes to the support of the "bishop" or the pastors, claiming they need the salaries & perks..........that is false. If you have free lodging, food, laundry, office, medical care, etc.........you simply do not need a salary in addition to all of that. Christ had nothing, except the clothes on His back & sandals on His feet - and He commanded His Apostles & Disciples to carry nothing with them, own nothing, and keep nothing for themselves - giving ALL which was given to them to the poor. Look it up in the Bible! For those who cannot comprehend this, a view of the movie "The Shoes of the Fisherman" would be quite educational. " />
The "bishop" thinks the teachers get paid too much? Well, perhaps he and his flunkies (the pastors)should give up THEIR salaries, perks, luxury accomadations, pricy autos, luxury vacation condos (yes - they DO have those!), housekeepers, etc., and live like Christ did..........in whose Name they dare to claim authority over people. And whose Name they use as a cash cow corporate logo (like Col. Sanders on KFC) for vast personal & corporate gain - for centuries It was the "church adminstrators" (temple masters) who put Christ to death........and they were the only ones whom He condemned. That is in every Bible - read it! When He cleansed the temple in Jerusalem - driving out the money changers (who were making $$ for the temple masters) He said: "My house is a house of prayer; but you have made it a den of theives!". That was spoken to them of that day - and to the "bishops" and clerics of this day as well. They cannot & will not escape His judgment. Ask: "where has ALL the money gone"? The bequests, endowment funds, gifts of land, bank accounts? Where? Has it gone to feed & clothe the poor - in whom Christ is present? NO!!! You have and continue to be swindled by these wolves in shepherds cloaks. They do not care about you, your children, your souls, your rights - they simply wish to use you, and your $$$. They are the lords; you are the serfs. If someone could definitively PROVE that the Diocese of Scranton and its member parishes had virtually bankrupted themselves because they literally gave away ALL of the millions upon millions of dollars given by good people over the years to the poor......literally empied thei pockets into the hands of those who needed it, no questions asked..............then they and this "bishop" would be following what Christ ordered His disciples to do (in Scripture). Now, before some well meaning fool rushes to the support of the "bishop" or the pastors, claiming they need the salaries & perks..........that is false. If you have free lodging, food, laundry, office, medical care, etc.........you simply do not need a salary in addition to all of that. Christ had nothing, except the clothes on His back & sandals on His feet - and He commanded His Apostles & Disciples to carry nothing with them, own nothing, and keep nothing for themselves - giving ALL which was given to them to the poor. Look it up in the Bible! For those who cannot comprehend this, a view of the movie "The Shoes of the Fisherman" would be quite educational.
No more $$$$
2008-03-21T23:25:43
The only one who will see what you have done.......is God......!!! He will see and reward your sincerity. FYI - if you give to " name=comment_text get and to as on - But do this......$$$ anonymously in an envelope for your poor neighbor. Trust me - you will feel as if you gave $10K.......even if you only give $20, because you did something sincere without thought of reward or thanks. "
Witholding donations is a great idea - since all that clergy like Martino or Boylan understand is $$$$$. Give it to the poor. Here is a great idea: take that money which you would normally give to the church, and put it in a plain, unmarked white envelope. Now go and slide it under the door of someone whom you know is poor. JUST DO IT!!! You are not asking for thanks, repayment, interest, a tax write-off, a photo-op........you are doing what Christ commanded.......CHARITY!!!! The only one who will see what you have done.......is God......!!! He will see and reward your sincerity. FYI - if you give to "charity" and then write it off on your taxes.........you are cheating; because you are trying to get a "reward" from your "charity".........and that is NOT charity! There is no such thing as "giving to God", because God neither wants nor needs your money. He commanded us to help our neighbor - any neighbor! But do this......$$$ anonymously in an envelope for your poor neighbor. Trust me - you will feel as if you gave $10K.......even if you only give $20, because you did something sincere without thought of reward or thanks.
sad
2008-03-22T12:48:40
As an alumnus of St. Vincent's, this entire situation makes me sad, although I'm not silly enough to misunderstand what is going on in the Church. Sadly, my feeling is that it is changing because of declining enrollment in the Church and in the schools. Yes, it is all a "business"...I think it's hard for some of us to see it that way, but it is true. My wish in recent weeks has been that Bishop Martino and other leaders would actually give up the "I'm right, you're wrong; I'm the boss, you're not" mentality for 10 minutes and have a civilized meeting with the teachers. Communication! I mean no disrespect. I just feel the powers that be have made this situation much worse in the way this has been handled. Now, there are so many angry and fed-up people, and it would seem that the time of reasoning has passed.
2008-03-22T15:36:42
to wages of sin, you hit that nail right on the head and drove it home
parent of a student
2008-03-24T04:43:08
They really want to close the school and do not want any contracts. The amount of children in some grades are so small that there is no other choice. They have been forced out by the cost. Honesty plays no role just the constant drumbeat of more money. They should just reveal their motives.
Support union too and I care about St. Vincents School
2008-03-24T15:26:05
They always had a union and I am from the old school, if you started out with a union, then you have legal right to keep that union. This is very sad, because they have great teachers in St. Vincent’s and they were only interested giving students a good education. If they had hired new teachers and they want to go with the Diocese of Scranton that would be their lose. Bishop Martino is trying to control this whole thing and he does not have the right to do that. I believe that this is Bishop Martino’s way of closing the Catholic schools and when he does that, he will lose a lot of catholic’s. I went to a catholic school over fifty five years ago and it was in the city, and my school and church are still standing, it has not been closed like the churchs and schools in PA. I do believe in God and I do carry him in my heart! Before Bishop Martino took over, St. Vincent's School had lots of students and a great principal, now that Bishop Martino is running the show and changing everything, the school has lost students and good people that also worked there, because they all cared about the children. " name=comment_text>
I am a catholic and I do support unions for the teachers of St. Vincent’s School. They always had a union and I am from the old school, if you started out with a union, then you have legal right to keep that union. This is very sad, because they have great teachers in St. Vincent’s and they were only interested giving students a good education. If they had hired new teachers and they want to go with the Diocese of Scranton that would be their lose. Bishop Martino is trying to control this whole thing and he does not have the right to do that. I believe that this is Bishop Martino’s way of closing the Catholic schools and when he does that, he will lose a lot of catholic’s. I went to a catholic school over fifty five years ago and it was in the city, and my school and church are still standing, it has not been closed like the churchs and schools in PA. I do believe in God and I do carry him in my heart! Before Bishop Martino took over, St. Vincent's School had lots of students and a great principal, now that Bishop Martino is running the show and changing everything, the school has lost students and good people that also worked there, because they all cared about the children.
Questionable motives?
2008-03-25T03:35:23
Now there was NOT a drastic decline in parish membership or attendance PRIOR to this time period. Think about that for a moment. Yet, since Martino & Boylan arrived, the number of masses has been slashed - which obviously CAUSES a drop in attendance. Look at it another way - if you have a movie theater, and you reduce the number of showings of a movie - you will naturally tend to reduce the overall attendance figures. The more you reduce the number of potential "seatings", the smaller your attendance will be. That is without even taking into consideration the very important emotional factor of parishioners who feel offended by such "service cuts"........and simply walk away angry. The clergy know this, and are using it..........! This is a sort of ecclesiastical downsizing. It is done on purpose - dont let anybody tell you to the contrary! And what makes any supportive argument in favor of it (i.e. lack of priests) becomes laughable, in light of the fact that the number of clergy working in the parish has been essentially constant over the years. Simply stated: they are doing this on purpose. Laziness is a factor - but a secondary one. Let he/she who has brains & eyes to see.........use them......and comprehend what it going on here! St. Vincent's sits on some 50 acres of very valuable real estate. Let that sink in!!!!!!! Think well on that, and come to the (painfully obvious) correct conclusion. No matter what some diocesan spin doctor says, they want this school closed. Open your eyes and read what has and is happening across the US in other dioceses. The Catholic schools are being liquidated - slowly and intentionally. While they remain open, they serve to drain money. Yes, there should be a teachers union - and they have the right to organize, and should be supported by the parents of the students. But the motivation & honesty of the Diocese should be questioned. After all, these are the good folks who brought you the Society of St. Johhn in Shahola - which was approved of, funded by, and vigorously defended by .........the Diocese & its leadership. Your money went to underwrite them. And to defend the Diocese against those victims who dared (GASP!!!) to complain of and persue criminal & civil action." />
One should realize that both Bishop Martino & the local pastor came to power at about the same time............which seems to coincide with the "decline" in St. Vincent's mentioned by other posters. Very interesting..................one should also note well that the number of Sunday masses has been drasticaly slashed here in these last 4-5 years. Now there was NOT a drastic decline in parish membership or attendance PRIOR to this time period. Think about that for a moment. Yet, since Martino & Boylan arrived, the number of masses has been slashed - which obviously CAUSES a drop in attendance. Look at it another way - if you have a movie theater, and you reduce the number of showings of a movie - you will naturally tend to reduce the overall attendance figures. The more you reduce the number of potential "seatings", the smaller your attendance will be. That is without even taking into consideration the very important emotional factor of parishioners who feel offended by such "service cuts"........and simply walk away angry. The clergy know this, and are using it..........! This is a sort of ecclesiastical downsizing. It is done on purpose - dont let anybody tell you to the contrary! And what makes any supportive argument in favor of it (i.e. lack of priests) becomes laughable, in light of the fact that the number of clergy working in the parish has been essentially constant over the years. Simply stated: they are doing this on purpose. Laziness is a factor - but a secondary one. Let he/she who has brains & eyes to see.........use them......and comprehend what it going on here! St. Vincent's sits on some 50 acres of very valuable real estate. Let that sink in!!!!!!! Think well on that, and come to the (painfully obvious) correct conclusion. No matter what some diocesan spin doctor says, they want this school closed. Open your eyes and read what has and is happening across the US in other dioceses. The Catholic schools are being liquidated - slowly and intentionally. While they remain open, they serve to drain money. Yes, there should be a teachers union - and they have the right to organize, and should be supported by the parents of the students. But the motivation & honesty of the Diocese should be questioned. After all, these are the good folks who brought you the Society of St. Johhn in Shahola - which was approved of, funded by, and vigorously defended by .........the Diocese & its leadership. Your money went to underwrite them. And to defend the Diocese against those victims who dared (GASP!!!) to complain of and persue criminal & civil action.
posted by SDACT at
1:17 PM
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